Your penchant for unfounded presumptions are noted. Or the OS works. I don't think I've seen a Microsoft ad after Windows XP (the one with people flying around their offices. Soaring with productivity or something. What the hell).ezzetabi wrote:I was counting the seconds before an answer like that... ahahah... Good for you? Well, the advertisement worked well it seems.
topic to flame MS and DX11
Re: Ogre3d GSoC
Re: Ogre3d GSoC
If we want to talk about this we should start a new thread. Anyhow, the ads are not the ones you are thinking, but more about putting MS everywhere, in the computers, in the schools, in the offices. If you grow up only with MS in all the machines you meet you will think it as good.
Re: Ogre3d GSoC
Not necessarily so. I hated and despised MS until I discovered GNU, after that I stopped caring about MS and thus I stopped hating it.ezzetabi wrote:If you grow up only with MS in all the machines you meet you will think it as good.
Re: Ogre3d GSoC
Wow... nice sum up. Thinking about it, it is what I feel too.natirips wrote:Not necessarily so. I hated and despised MS until I discovered GNU, after that I stopped caring about MS and thus I stopped hating it.
Still I fell weird when people says that it's good because it makes me recall about 12 years of my life where I fought MS nonsense thinking it was normal where actually it is just built to sell support.
Re: topic to flame MS and DX11
So when you said advertisements, you didn't mean advertisements, but experience across a broad range of industries? I see.Anyhow, the ads are not the ones you are thinking, but more about putting MS everywhere, in the computers, in the schools, in the offices
I wish I could just go to any Linux distro. Unfortunately, a lot of programs (and games) are written for Windows (Wine is only a make-shift solution) and it sometimes feels... well, made up of bricks that are just a bit too small rather than one solid piece of software.
And then there is the elitism that *some* Linux users display which rivals any OSX fanboy. That really doesn't help either.
Re: topic to flame MS and DX11
Call it ``experience across broad range of industries'' if you like, but if advertising is calling something to the attention of the public I still find it as advertising.
It might be language barrier, but putting your OS in the school computers is the best way call attention of the public.
Children grow-up learning and seeing your product and soon or later will buy it. Very often just for ignorance for alternatives or plain laziness.
And this advertisement is so strong that people hardly ever see the ms products at fault, but always the other applications. If you know the online shop gog dot com and you ever browse the forum it is plenty of people with problem with the never windows and think that the problem is in the application. But actualy is actually no technical reason why an application what works with a windows (post XP at least) should not work anymore.
I do not know about elitism... the Linux community always appeared more friendly and capable than the ms one. At very least any google search does not end with few pages of scam programs.
About Wine, I am afraid you got a misconception. Wine is an windows implementation and it serves for programs wrote for windows. It is not a make-shift solution at least until you got at least program wrote for windows you want to use.
It might be language barrier, but putting your OS in the school computers is the best way call attention of the public.
Children grow-up learning and seeing your product and soon or later will buy it. Very often just for ignorance for alternatives or plain laziness.
And this advertisement is so strong that people hardly ever see the ms products at fault, but always the other applications. If you know the online shop gog dot com and you ever browse the forum it is plenty of people with problem with the never windows and think that the problem is in the application. But actualy is actually no technical reason why an application what works with a windows (post XP at least) should not work anymore.
I do not know about elitism... the Linux community always appeared more friendly and capable than the ms one. At very least any google search does not end with few pages of scam programs.
About Wine, I am afraid you got a misconception. Wine is an windows implementation and it serves for programs wrote for windows. It is not a make-shift solution at least until you got at least program wrote for windows you want to use.
Re: topic to flame MS and DX11
ezzetabi wrote:Call it ``experience across broad range of industries'' if you like, but if advertising is calling something to the attention of the public I still find it as advertising.
It might be language barrier, but putting your OS in the school computers is the best way call attention of the public.
Children grow-up learning and seeing your product and soon or later will buy it. Very often just for ignorance for alternatives or plain laziness.
And this advertisement is so strong that people hardly ever see the ms products at fault, but always the other applications. If you know the online shop gog dot com and you ever browse the forum it is plenty of people with problem with the never windows and think that the problem is in the application. But actualy is actually no technical reason why an application what works with a windows (post XP at least) should not work anymore.
I do not know about elitism... the Linux community always appeared more friendly and capable than the ms one. At very least any google search does not end with few pages of scam programs.
About Wine, I am afraid you got a misconception. Wine is an windows implementation and it serves for programs wrote for windows. It is not a make-shift solution at least until you got at least program wrote for windows you want to use.
I'm not sure what kind of school are you talking about, I agree linux should be on computers in elementary schools, advantages like no need to pay for OS, antivirus which is useless in elementary school (those computers are pretty much cluttered by all the spywares, trojans etc. etc.), they only need to learn to use programs such as Word and Paint (for no reason), and there are great alternatives on Linux.
On the other side, you can't expect usage of Linux in collage or some high schools, where they need Adobe or Autodesk software. Of course you can say "there's GIMP and Blender, but that ain't gonna cut it.
It's true most of people are still ignorant of OS alternatives.
I'm not a Windows fanboy, I used Linux, but I had to switch back for incompatibility with lot of games and programs I use. And I really don't understand haters. Most of people don't use Linux as main platform for the same reason as I do, and/or they haven't even heard of Linux for the same reason.
Oh and, do you think if Linux was mainstream, and Windows alternative for other type of people, then Windows community would be more friendly?
Sorry for grammatical errors, and please do point them out, don't be afraid of being called a grammar nazi.
Re: topic to flame MS and DX11
The fact that Adobe and Autodesk make the same kind of advertisement make only the point more clear (I hope). And it does not make Windows better. If you got no choice, then it is useless to speak about what is better or not.
I do not understand haters either, but I would like that people accept that most of the Windows ``goodness'' is from advertisement and lack of choice caused by the need of using OTHER programs. But after all I guess I should not care.
I do not understand haters either, but I would like that people accept that most of the Windows ``goodness'' is from advertisement and lack of choice caused by the need of using OTHER programs. But after all I guess I should not care.
Re: topic to flame MS and DX11
Windows is generally the standard, this is why most software is available for it and schools use it alongside programs like adobe and office to teach the kids.
Actually here in Australia I find a whole heap of apple computers in the schools I went to. You can assume Apple just like Microsoft goes to lengths to get maximum people using their product.
But in the end most of the kids never found a reason to switch their home/parents computers to apple or even further to Linux. Although in those days we didn't have computer screens and "learning apps/games(lazy teacher)" shoved down our throats at grade 1 which made us addicted to whatever we were using.
Only one other kid the classes I attended had awareness of Linux, yet he seemed to enjoy Apple computers because he is anti Windows, essentially with the opinion "Microsoft sucks- used by noobs who know nothing about what they want their computer to do and Apple is better", so on and so forth
.
Linux is naturally more technical and less accessible (forgetting the lesser availability/compatibility) and of course does not have huge financial backing to get itself so.
Yes Windows has its problems, its stupid design decisions, its errors when we would like computers to be 100% perfect, its occasional compatibility problems with the billions of possible configurations, it's love of profit/growth, and it's "blind fanbois".
But so does Apple, so does Linux, so does freeWhatsit, so does AmigaOS, so does Android, etc etc etc.
Yet All in all, obviously it works, people are still using it, people still create software for it because it works. If all of a sudden MS comes out with an OS that is so completely shit beyond recognition and completely unusable, OR another operating system becomes magically measurably(to average consumer) ooooooh sooooo muuuucch better people will be switching; Manufacturers will switch, techs will switch, developers will switch, consumers will switch, more developers will switch and eventually all consumers will switch.
A different operating system will take the podium, take it's path and people and the fanbois will starting find problems with it and claim that their new underdog is better.
Windows just happens to be at the top, which as in just about everything in life is the one who gets the most attention from all aspects good and bad.
I for one am glad there is an OS at the top, is a standard and has been a success.... doesn't really matter what it is. I am also glad there is a reasonable competition.
Exaggeration: Imagine If everyone happened to use a different OS that they all hombrewed for themselves or their businesses, the computing world would be a mess, be highly inefficient and fail to survive beyond a hobby. Software industry?-no... Hardware industry?-no ... Support?-no ... Relevant Education?-no... Competition?-no... technology advancement?-no... Global interconnectivity?- Doubt it.....Fail?-yes.
Again Windows just happens to be at the top of the podium, whether the OS itself deserves to be there in this era does not matter. What matters is that it (the windows/microsoft ecosystem) does everything what most people expect of their computer, where generally the competitors do not.
People think "Windows" is "good" because it does what they want, the others do not.
People think "Apple" is "good" because it does what they want, the others do not.
People think "Linux" is "good" because it does what they want, the others do not.
I use Windows and its ecosystem of software/hardware because it does what I want (99.9%), even though Linux or Apple may be better "Operating Systems" they do not come close to giving a real reason to convert.
In response to "sell support"
I have the Windows OS (OEM edition 1/3 of price), windows live and a cheap Microsoft mouse and that's basically it for the MS products I use. If I need support I don't go to microsoft or some tech number, I go to a knowledgeable forum where people actually listen to the problem and help just like I imagine Linux guys do. Or run a quick google search of course.
Never have I heard of anyone paying for any sort of support for windows in the rare occasion there is a problem with the operating system itself. Maybe your Granny will ring the support number on the packet but most people will search or ask someone they know will have an answer for free without bothering explaining problems over the phone or ordering a service guy to the house who possibly has no idea and will just reinstall your entire computer.
Actually here in Australia I find a whole heap of apple computers in the schools I went to. You can assume Apple just like Microsoft goes to lengths to get maximum people using their product.
But in the end most of the kids never found a reason to switch their home/parents computers to apple or even further to Linux. Although in those days we didn't have computer screens and "learning apps/games(lazy teacher)" shoved down our throats at grade 1 which made us addicted to whatever we were using.
Only one other kid the classes I attended had awareness of Linux, yet he seemed to enjoy Apple computers because he is anti Windows, essentially with the opinion "Microsoft sucks- used by noobs who know nothing about what they want their computer to do and Apple is better", so on and so forth
.Linux is naturally more technical and less accessible (forgetting the lesser availability/compatibility) and of course does not have huge financial backing to get itself so.
Yes Windows has its problems, its stupid design decisions, its errors when we would like computers to be 100% perfect, its occasional compatibility problems with the billions of possible configurations, it's love of profit/growth, and it's "blind fanbois".
But so does Apple, so does Linux, so does freeWhatsit, so does AmigaOS, so does Android, etc etc etc.
Yet All in all, obviously it works, people are still using it, people still create software for it because it works. If all of a sudden MS comes out with an OS that is so completely shit beyond recognition and completely unusable, OR another operating system becomes magically measurably(to average consumer) ooooooh sooooo muuuucch better people will be switching; Manufacturers will switch, techs will switch, developers will switch, consumers will switch, more developers will switch and eventually all consumers will switch.
A different operating system will take the podium, take it's path and people and the fanbois will starting find problems with it and claim that their new underdog is better.
Windows just happens to be at the top, which as in just about everything in life is the one who gets the most attention from all aspects good and bad.
I for one am glad there is an OS at the top, is a standard and has been a success.... doesn't really matter what it is. I am also glad there is a reasonable competition.
Exaggeration: Imagine If everyone happened to use a different OS that they all hombrewed for themselves or their businesses, the computing world would be a mess, be highly inefficient and fail to survive beyond a hobby. Software industry?-no... Hardware industry?-no ... Support?-no ... Relevant Education?-no... Competition?-no... technology advancement?-no... Global interconnectivity?- Doubt it.....Fail?-yes.
Again Windows just happens to be at the top of the podium, whether the OS itself deserves to be there in this era does not matter. What matters is that it (the windows/microsoft ecosystem) does everything what most people expect of their computer, where generally the competitors do not.
People think "Windows" is "good" because it does what they want, the others do not.
People think "Apple" is "good" because it does what they want, the others do not.
People think "Linux" is "good" because it does what they want, the others do not.
I use Windows and its ecosystem of software/hardware because it does what I want (99.9%), even though Linux or Apple may be better "Operating Systems" they do not come close to giving a real reason to convert.
In response to "sell support"
I have the Windows OS (OEM edition 1/3 of price), windows live and a cheap Microsoft mouse and that's basically it for the MS products I use. If I need support I don't go to microsoft or some tech number, I go to a knowledgeable forum where people actually listen to the problem and help just like I imagine Linux guys do. Or run a quick google search of course.
Never have I heard of anyone paying for any sort of support for windows in the rare occasion there is a problem with the operating system itself. Maybe your Granny will ring the support number on the packet but most people will search or ask someone they know will have an answer for free without bothering explaining problems over the phone or ordering a service guy to the house who possibly has no idea and will just reinstall your entire computer.
Re: topic to flame MS and DX11
Uh... this is no exaggeration. It exactly how it was in the begin of the Internet. And it is also show why free (libre) open source is so important.Rhys wrote:Exaggeration: Imagine If everyone happened to use a different OS that they all hombrewed for themselves or their businesses, the computing world would be a mess, be highly inefficient and fail to survive beyond a hobby. Software industry?-no... Hardware industry?-no ... Support?-no ... Relevant Education?-no... Competition?-no... technology advancement?-no... Global interconnectivity?- Doubt it.....Fail?-yes.
Maybe companies in my country are strange.Never have I heard of anyone paying for any sort of support...